Attendees: Greg York, Chairman: Jim Garner, PVS; John Hirschmann, PVS; Don Riedlinger, PVS; Bill Stephens, PVS; Cheryl Bauman, CUBU; Rick Curl, CUBU; Susie Hutchinson, CUBU; Marilyn Mangels, CUBU; Manga Dalizu, FAST; Robert Davis, FAST; Duane Davis, FBST; Mike Kraeuter, FISH; Jeff Haynie, HACC; Kerstin Severin, HACC; Kirby Weldon, HOYA; Vicki Collins, JFD; Christian Doud, MACH; Niels Moore, MAKO; Chris Huott, MSSC; Dave Kraft, RMSC; Kent Williams, RMSC; Shelly Gesher, YORK

Call to Order: The Competition Committee Chairman, Greg York called the meeting to order at 12:10pm at River Falls.

Jim Garner provided a proposed agenda for use at the meeting.

Approval of Minutes: The minutes of the May 19, 2003 Competition Committee meeting were approved after amending them to clarify that the camp not completely referred to in the prior draft of the minutes was the mini camp that Greg indicated will be held again during the 2003-04 season.

Selection of 2002-03 PVS Outstanding Athletes: Garner circulated to those eligible to vote a list of nominations (and supporting documentation in their behalf.) Each club was given an opportunity to review this material, after which voting by conducted by secret ballot.

The winners were announced later in the meeting and results were as follows:

A motion was then made seconded and passed to destroy the ballots.

Reports from USAS Convention: Greg York invited those Board members present to provide reports on what occurred at the recently completed USAS convention in San Diego, September 9-14, 2003.

Don Riedlinger first gave a report as PVS Senior Chair.

He reported that there was considerable concern about the size of the recently completed National Championships at the University of Maryland. This particularly related to the size of time trials and number of relay only swimmers there. For future meets it has now been clarified that the number of desired heats of relays can be less than for individual swims Making this change should have a substantial impact on the number of relay only swimmers and also the number participating in time trials.

Don also noted that the IOC is now requiring pulmonary testing to verify the need to use an inhaler or similar medication. A medical note indicating the need is no longer sufficient. He reviewed in greater detail the specific requirements for how the test needs to be conducted and requirements for being permitted to use such a medication

He explained where minor changes were being made in the time standards for individual events for the 2004 (vice 2003) USA Swimming Summer Nationals. Additional details from Don's report are attached.

He also noted that the Spring Nationals in Orlando, February 10-14, 2004 will use US Open cuts as QT's This is because given the early dates for the meet, it is expected only about 25% of the eligible swimmers will attend. If this should prove to be incorrect, A and B flights can be run.

John Hirschmann then reported on what happened at convention and highlighted certain legislative items of interest to PVS.

The pool depth requirement for out of water starts (deck or starting blocks) now requires a minimum of 4' (no longer 3'6") of water -- effective May 15, 2004.

Any zone is now only required to conduct one Speedo Championship Series meet in the summer (LC). The Eastern Zone received a waiver for 2004 to only conduct one LC meet and has now awarded only one meet for LC 2005.

While there was no change in legislation, it is clear from the basis provided by R&R for not making a rule change that PVS can allow a substitution for a declared false start in finals if so indicates in its meet announcement.

Legislation was passed that states a coach is responsible for supervising his athlete during competition, warm-up and warm-down. The requirement for "direct supervision" was not included in the adopted legislation.

Legislation to remove from the Code of Conduct the prohibition on recruiting did not pass. General advertising is now OK, but targeting specific athletes is not. It is hoped a better guidance will be available as cases are decided and/or guidance is provided in response to inquiries - hopefully submitted in advance of the planned activity.

Ron Whalen indicated that athletes subject to testing be careful of using off the shelf medications since given the tolerance levels being tested for, contamination from the manufacturing process could be sufficient to cause an athlete to test positive.

He also noted that high speed cameras (in lieu of buttons and watches may be used for backup timing at Nationals.)

Jim Garner reported that two LSC's announced that they are not planning to attend the 2004 Spring Eastern Zone Meet. Reasons cited included lack of interest by many 15-18 year olds in going (causing athletes going to come from way down the depth chart), time away from school, swimmers going for the wrong reason (have fun, get outfitted) rather than swim fast, etc.

As a result the Zone is undertaking a fundamental review of the meet. A task force has been appointed to do so. Greg York is one of six members of the task force. There was further discussion on this when Greg gave his convention report.

Jim also reported the Spring 2004 sectionals will stay as they were in 2003 -- both in terms of QT and Order of Events.

The Summer 2004 sectional is being combined into a Super Sectional. It was agreed that going to combine Order of Events, the "Southern" order of events for Distance (non-olympic on Thurs, Olympic on Sunday) would be followed, however the "Northern" order would be followed in that 200 Fly would be on Saturday rather than Sunday.

Some concerns were expressed about the length of zones at the University of Pittsburgh. It was noted the meet will be in Buffalo which has two courses for the next two years - that should largely alleviate the problem in 2004 and 2005.

Character checks on non-athlete members will be initiated, starting with the USA Swimming board. This is being done to minimize the likelihood that we have somebody involved in our sport who have a history of inappropriate conduct.

Ethan Bassett indicated that attendance at convention had been very beneficial to him and attending had introduced to dry side of swimming. He now realizes what all is needed in terms of support to have a successful competitive swim program and provide the support needed to allow the athletes to be successful.

Ethan also indicated he attended a panel on why athletes are in sport - both younger and older participated. He indicated contact by younger swimmers with older swimmers and why they stayed involved might help retain younger athletes.

Ethan stated he wants to get more involved. He indicated he was advised that he should seek to get involved with committee assignments next year - after having some time to observe the process.

Bill Stephens reported on the just completed Registrar Seminar that had been held just prior to this meeting. He distributed an in-depth report on insurance issues and urged those present to become familiar with the documents. He noted PVS has legal counsel available to it if the resources are needed. He also urged to clubs to make sure activities they are undertaking are covered by the policy and that they do not inadvertently engage in non-covered activities.

He also noted that coaches' registration is a challenge - particularly the failure of coaches to make sure they are keeping all their certifications current and on file with PVS. PVS will start making sure coaches on the deck at meets have current registrations. Meet sites will get up to date information to help with this monitoring. He also urged head coaches to take the lead in making sure all their assistant coaches are properly registered.

Greg York noted that problem also came to light when it was discovered several of the potential zone coaches did not have all their certifications current and steps had to be taken to get them current before they represented PVS at Zones.

Bill Marlin submitted a written report in advance of the meeting. It is attached to these minutes. It was clarified another reason Ann Arbor would no longer be a Grand Prix meet site was to help make the other sites more competitive.

Also, several PVS attendees had the understanding that Junior National legislation was pulled was so that a special committee with members sympathetic to having Junior Nationals could address the situation and make a recommendation.

Greg York indicated he attended a talk on nutrition.

He emphasized USA Swimming interest in supporting camps. He stated he thought they would support almost any camp structure as long as there was a plan and a goal/objective.) He noted PVS did not run any camps last year. He indicated PVS will run Mini Camp this year. He emphasized PVS will support more camps - funding is available - just need volunteers to come forward and run them.

He also indicated changes could quite well be coming in the structure of the SC Eastern Zone meet. He announced he is serving on a task force to address the matter. As Jim Garner reported, two LSC's will not participate in 2004 for the reasons stated.

Greg solicited the viewpoint of PVS coaches on this matter. Many supported no longer having the 15/18 age group in the meet - many felt this would then allow the meet structure to permit 3 swimmers per LSC to participate. It was also noted that might make it possible to add 10/U to finals and/or run consols in finals. Other suggestions were to run it like LC (with QT's.) Others suggested that the SC meet no longer be held and the EZ do as the other three zones and just conduct a LC meet.

Others addressed how some of these changes might impact the timeline. One coach did not favor dropping the 15-18's just because some do not step up to the challenges, but noted others do and benefit from the experience.

There was a straw vote to see if liked idea to change it to a 14/U meet and allow 3 fastest swimmers per event. Most PVS coaches present supported this concept.

Rick Curl indicated he hoped it would still be possible to amend the Zone for SC '04 to allow for three swimmers per event since two LSC's were apparently not coming. It was noted this may not be possible to get this to happen since the Zone does not meet again until May and having two less teams participate will not impact the number of heats in prelims - since both 20 and 24 swimmers require three heats.

Distance Swimmer Awards: Information on the apparent winners were not available since the power failures had precluded access to the server on which this information resides. It was agreed that the matter would be researched as soon as practical and the apparent winners sent out via flash mail and recipients given a week to comment if they believe any corrections were needed. [Note: This information was sent out via flash mail on September 22. As a result, one change was brought to PVS's attention pertaining to a swim in international competition. Therefore, the winners are:

Review of 2003 Long Course Season: The general feeling was that the 2003 Long Course season went well. No concerns were raised about the new format that was used for the first time for this year's long course championship meets.

PVS Eastern Zone Long Course Team -- Dave Kraft as Head Coach of PVS's Long Course Zone had submitted a written report at the beginning of September. which is attached to these minutes. In addition, he made the following points - mostly pertaining to administrative matters.

He emphasized the entry process needs attention with many problems created by teams who wished to add swimmers, submitting an entire new entry, rather than just submitting the incremental changes. Also, the time frame for submitting entries after the entry deadline was compressed this year.

There were also problems with teams - particularly those submitting fax entries not providing entry times or updated times. (Results for these meets were not otherwise readily available.) Validating times not already known to PVS via its database was challenging. Dave was encouraged to make notes now on how to improve the process, so in the future we will benefit from and build upon this experience and make it go smoother.

It was also noted that PVS frequently changes its head Zone Coach each year. This can impact continuity and the ability to benefit from prior year's experience. The possibility of having continuity - particularly on the administrative side was proposed.

Dave reported that at the meet things generally went pretty smoothly. He modified last years procedures so a coach stayed with each age group throughout the meet. This allowed for the swimmers receiving continuity in coaching, guidance on who was likely to swim the relays, etc. The kids good about staying to swim relays.

The two head coaches took two age groups - the other coaches each took one. PVS Men finished 2nd, Women finished 4th, overall team finish was 2nd.

Dave observed it was a tough sell to get a strong team there. He felt it may be tougher to sell going to Buffalo than Pittsburgh. Others suggested we should be selling the concept of the fact Buffalo has a fast pool and that is why you are there - rather than attractiveness of the host city.

It was also observed some club coaches do a better job of selling meet to their kids and having them motivated and focused to swim fast then, rather than just have them view as another meet.

Parent involvement good - most understood the need to leave deck if asked and reason why was explained to them.

It was noted the Head Coach had to wear a second hat as Acting Team Manager when the Team Manager had to leave unexpectedly due to family matters. The Team Manager had handled team finances and arranged for officials. It was acknowledged the need to wear two hats could have been a problem in that had required being in two places at once.

Review of Planned 2003-04 Short Course Season: First item of business was the election of PVS Eastern Zone Head Coach and Assistant Coach. No nominations were received in advance of the meeting.

Accordingly, nominations were first sought from the floor starting with Head Coach. Greg York and Dave Kraft were nominated. Elections were conducted by secret ballot - each club having one vote. Greg York was elected. A motion to destroy the ballots was made, seconded and passed.

Nominations were then sought for Assistant Head Coach. Dave Kraft and Eric Moore were nominated. Dave Kraft was elected. A motion to destroy the ballots was made, seconded and passed.

Hirschmann reviewed the current situation with 2003-04 SC PVS Open Meets. He reported that pools and meet hosts have been identified for PVS meets with one exception. One club has now bid to run one additional course at the November Open, which the PVS Board will be asked to approve on Wednesday. If no other bids are received by then, the November Open will have to run in a maximum of 18 lanes - 8 at Mount Vernon and 10 at PGS&LC.

He also observed that the role of PVS versus clubs in providing competition for non-championship and distance meets continues to be a challenge as the respective roles continue to be sorted out. He indicated that he had asked the incoming Strategic Chairman, Jim VanErden to give a high priority to looking into this matter.

Others noted that the number of pools that PVS can rent continue to be quite limited. Therefore, he asked for understanding if all (or most) of the venues are in Maryland and Virginia clubs have to cross the river to compete.

Three requests regarding restructuring of PVS SC season championship meets were made.

First, Rick Curl asked that the prior decision to conduct the PVS Spring Senior Championship all LCM. He proposed that prelims be conducted SCY and finals LCM. Hirschmann and others raised the fact there may be issue of whether the pool engaged for this meet - GMU will be willing reconfigure itself twice a day to handle this requirement.

Comments were made both in favor and in opposition to the motion.

It was noted that this would allow more swims in the morning, while allowing LCM swims (needed for OT cuts) in the evening. It was also noted PVS had done in the past - this is not without precedent.

Others preferred an all SCY meet, most kids are doing this at this time of the year and there would likely be better participation. It was also noted that swimmers who need LC OT cuts can do at Sectionals and they would undoubtedly already have that cut. It was noted our Sectional is the same weekend as NCSA Juniors same weekend which is being swum SCY - thus creating a scheduling conflict.

Curl's proposal was formally made as a motion. Motion passed 8-1

A motion was then made if the venue would not agree to reconfigure during the meet from SCY to LCM, that Competition reconsider its May 2003 decision and swim the entire meet SCY rather than LCM. There was discussion both in favor and in opposition to the proposal. Concern was expressed that not swimming LCM would not be fair to our potential OT swimmers and that should be first priority.

There were 4 votes in favor of staying with SC, therefore the Motion failed.

It was noted that if the SCY/LCM format is swum, procedures will need to be worked out on how to handle 800/1000 1650/1500 and the timed final relays - will they be swum SCY, LCM or in some combination.

Second was a proposed change to how the championship season should be conducted, Ward Foley moved that for PVS 14/U Championships (both SC and LC) that all the 10/U events be timed finals rather than continue the current practice of for most events of having the fastest 8 come back and swim in finals. He cited as a precedent how it is done at Eastern Zones and suggested PVS do the same. He felt that with 10/U prelims, these athletes were not getting enough rest. Others pointed out that a swimmer always has the right to scratch finals if for whatever reason they do not want to swim twice. A suggestion was also made that more 10/U be able to swim the meet (easier QT's) so more rest would be possible.

One coach made a general suggestion that we set as a goal that we copy what is done at higher levels of competition.

Dave Kraft was asked to research how our 10/U did at finals at our 14/U Champs versus zones to attempt to assess under what circumstances our stronger 10/U swimmers swam best.

The motion to not have 10/U swimmers in finals failed 4-7.

Third was a proposal that for SCY 14/U Champs, that a LCM QT also be permitted. It was agreed LCM times would seeded as "non conforming times" and that the intent was for the LCM times to be the equivalent of the SCY times. It was noted with more LCM being available and our desire to encourage LCM swimming whenever possible, this would encourage our athletes to choose an alternate route to qualify for this meet.

A motion to this effect was made, seconded and PASSED.

Championship Meet QT's Garner distributed two sheets that would set the proposed QT's for PVS Senior Spring Championship meet (one SCY and the other LCM.) These would only be used if the meet is conducted LCM only, since in that case only one course could be used for prelims.

It was agreed if go to SCY/LCM, last years QT's would be used and conforming times for seeding prelims would be SCY.

Hirschmann presented information on the historical experience with PVS JO SCY 14/U Championships in terms of QT's and entries received for the past three years and the timeline for last year's prelims. He noted that in aggregate the number of entries (splashes) received was about 200 less than number desired, though for some individual events there was greater variation. It was agreed the QT's for this year would be revised where the entry number was significantly different from that desired, but in no case would times drop below BB. As agreed to earlier, equivalent LCM times would also be announced.

Planning for 2004 Long Course Schedule: Based on the favorable review of the 2003 long course season, including in particular the new format for the championship meets, it was agreed PVS would stay with the same format for 2004. (The schedule had previously been discussed at the May, 2003 meeting.) A question was asked whether swimmers qualifying for the Speedo Championship Meet ("Super Sectional") in Buffalo would be able to qualify at the PVS Senior Long Course Championship the prior weekend. (Note: It was confirmed the following day that fax entries would be accepted for athletes qualifying for an event the first time on the weekend prior to the SCS meet.)

Hirschmann announced that PVS Long Course Distance meet is being planned for May 29-30, 2004 and based on requests made in May, the PVS Senior I/Age Group I would be combined and held on June 13, similarly Senior II/Age Group II would be combined and swum on June 27.

There was also a request that before the Senior Long Course Championship meet QT's are finalized, they be reviewed since in some cases these QT's were faster than those for the Speedo Championship Series meet.

Planning for 2004-05 Short Course Season: Hirschmann provided the Committee with a calendar from May, 2004 to April, 2005 showing the now known meets on the International, Nationals and Zone calendar.

He advised in order to assure pool availability, it was important to start the planning process now rather than defer to January. This is consistent with practice of the recent past.

It was agreed to start the planning process with the dates for the Spring Championship meets.

After some discussion, it was agreed to recommend that the PVS Senior Spring Championship meet would be March 3-6, 2005 and the PVS JO 14/U Age Group Championship would March 10-13, 2005

This would make the Spring Championship meet two weeks prior the Southern Eastern Zone Speedo Championship Series meet.

Dates for the PVS Distance Meets: Since January 1, 2005 will be a Saturday, the Committee agreed to recommend having the PVS January Distance Meet be January 8-9, 2005

It also agreed to recommend staying with the concept being tried in 2004 and have the PVS February Distance Meet be on President's Birthday weekend with most swims occurring on Sunday February 20 and those swimmers wishing to compete in both the 1000 and 1650, swimming the 1650 on Monday.

Dates for PVS Open Meets - The Committee then discussed when to have the PVS Open meets. The initial proposal was to have them on the same weekends at this year. That would make the dates for the PVS October Open - October 15-17, 2004; PVS November Open - November 12-14, 2004 and the January Open - January 15-16, 2005. A proposal was made to move the January Open one week later to avoid a conflict with three out of town meets, many PVS clubs attend. The proposal was agreed to. Accordingly, the January Open was moved to January 22-23, 2005. It was understood that the dates of the October and November Open Meets may have to be changed (if PGS&LC is being utilized) when the Redskins 2004 schedule is released in April 2004..

Senior Swimming: The issue of criteria for receiving financial assistance for travel to national level meets was raised. Rick Curl cited four athletes (including non CUBU swimmers) who not receive financial assistance last year because other commitments kept them from satisfying the meet participation requirements. He also mentioned the undesirable practice of swimming slow in prelims to avoid making finals and having to swim twice.

Because of the later situation, it was proposed that for 2004 only, the requirement for travel reimbursement be a total of 6 swims in PVS sanctioned meets, at least 3 of which are in PVS sponsored meets. This was endorsed by Competition as a recommendation to the Board. It was also recommended for high school seniors, the requirement be reduced to a total of 4 swims, of which none have to be in PVS sponsored meets. This was also endorsed by Competition as a recommendation to the Board.

Regarding the former situation, it was suggested that as an alternative to the splash requirements, athletes be permitted to demonstrate support to PVS by participating in a camp or meeting with younger swimmers, parents meeting, etc in lieu of at least some of these swims. Rick Curl agreed to form a committee and develop a more specific proposal. The expectation is that if approved, it would be implemented in 2005.

A question was raised as to why PVS was paying travel assistance and from what PVS revenue it was being paid. It was pointed out the funds come from PVS general revenue, no specific source of revenue is targeted for this purpose. It was pointed out that the PVS House of Delegates had voted to include travel assistance in this year's budget and in fact had added a requirement that the funding for each meet be capped. It was suggested that the annual House meeting was a more appropriate place to address of the appropriateness of PVS continuing to provide this support.

Age Group Swimming: The discussion focused on the problem of getting assistant zone coaches and how they should be selected. It was proposed that once the number of athletes making the team by club is known, teams placing the highest number of swimmers be given an opportunity to place coaches on the team. It was also suggested the coaches could be better prepared and have more time to coordinate their activities if the selection occurred earlier. Some felt other coaches would have gone this year if asked. Some concern was raised if picked by club, would coaches view their responsibility as including all PVS athletes, rather than just those from their club.

It was acknowledged that Policy and Procedures is out of date in that a one year trial started in 2000, has continued, but this change has never been reflected in updated policies.

It was proposed that lieu of either the current written policy or current practice, that formal written nominations be requested by January 1 and that this opportunity be well publicized via the webpage, etc. Competition would then select 2 13-18 year old and 2 12/U coaches at its Winter Competition Committee meeting. Nominations from the floor would not be accepted unless the slate was not full. Competition endorsed this change in policy as a recommended change to Policy and Procedures.

It was also noted that for the Short Course Zone meet, it is important that both sexes be represented on the selected coaching staff because of the collaterial chaperone responsibilities associated with this trip. Alternatively, it is important a team manager be available to assume this responsibility.

Outstanding PVS 14/U Coach Rick Curl reported that at the annual convention, ASCA recognizes the outstanding 14/U coach from many LSC's as selected by each LSC. PVS has so far not participated. He recommended that PVS start recognizing its outstanding14/U Coach each year. He recommended PVS establish a Committee to establish criteria and procedures for the selection. He also recommended that PVS pay up to $750 in expenses to allow the selected coach to attend the ASCA convention and receive his award in person.

The motion to have competition endorse this proposal PASSED unanimously. No names for a Committee were proposed.

Riedlinger noted that this is the meeting at which the qualifying period for PVS's SC Eastern Zone team should be determined. Hirschmann noted that for the past few years this has been September 1 thru end of qualifying period. The motion to have this be the qualifying period for selection the PVS Eastern Zone Short Course team PASSED unanimously. [Note the end of the qualifying period was not discussed. Based on past practice this would be March 7 (the end PVS JO 14/U Champs) for swimmers 14/U and March 14 (the end of PVS Senior Spring Championships) for 15-18 year old swimmers.]

[Note; It was noted after the meeting that since PVS JO 14/U Champs will be before - not after PVS Seniors that the cutoff date should be the Sunday of PVS Seniors so any younger swimmers who compete in PVS seniors can make a zone qualifying time at that meet. It was also noted if PVS Spring Seniors is all LCM, PVS 15-18 year old swimmers trying to qualify for zones will have to qualify earlier or at another meet.]

Board Reports: Greg York reminded the body that Coaches Continuing Education grants are available. 4 -- 2 go automatically the SC Head Zone Coach and Assistance Head Zone Coach.

Hirschmann reported on two topics - both of which had also been extensively addressed at the Registrar's Clinic that occurred just prior to this meeting.

The first item involved coaches registration and in particular problems being experienced with coaches having expired certifications. This is an insurance and potential liability issue. PVS has noted that a significant percentage of its coaches had at least one certification that had expired. PVS is advising that it will be monitoring the situation much more closely and will be asking coaches to leave the deck if their certifications are not current.

The second involved the SWIMS database. In particular, the importance of having both the athletes name and USA Swimming registration number that is in the database be completely correct was emphasized. In particular, it was stressed that the information used for registration (with the PVS registrar) and that used for entering meets needs to be completely consistent. He strongly recommended that clubs make sure that if clubs are using multiple versions of Team Manager, they make sure this data remain consistent. He also highlighted situations where errors are frequently made - causing the computer matching software to fail to make an automatic match.

Hirschmann explained further that USA Swimming has announced that starting with the beginning of the 2003-04 short course season, all times from sanctioned meets are to be loaded into the recently activated SWIMS data base. The times will only load automatically if a perfect match can be made with a registered athlete's name and their registration number. If this situation is not satisfied, manual intervention on an "athlete by athlete" basis is required. It was emphasized such times might never get fixed if the volume of "failed matches" to be resolved proves to be excessive.

In this case, clubs and coaches should expect to get complaints from parents and swimmers as to why their times did not load. People were encouraged to be proactive to avoid this situation from happening.

Old Business: There was no old business to come before the Committee.

New Business: Some concerns were raised about problems created by posting psych sheets publicly. Generally these have been well received, have been helpful in resolving meet entry problems prior to the meet - rather than at the first session of the meet and in most cases only appropriate people have made inquiries. However, it was pointed out that problems arose with PVS EZ LC entries when one age group went in ahead of another and some parents did not understand why their children were not on the initially posted list.

An inquiry was made as to whether the file could be password protected rather than be available publicly on the pvswim.org website. It was also noted an alternative approach would be to use Flash Mail to advise where the psych sheet was posted and not make this information generally available.

Riedlinger made an inquiry on how PVS selects its Eastern Zone coaches. He noted that he felt the procedures being followed at this meeting are in conflict with PVS's Policies and Procedures. [Note: While not addressed at the meeting, review of prior minutes after the meeting helped recall that the policy now being followed was adopted as a one year experiment in September 2000. Therefore, the change was not reflected Policy and Procedures. However, the practice has continued to be followed without a formal motion to change Policy and Procedures being made.]

Don Riedlinger brought to the Committee's attention that the spring 2004 Eastern Zone meet permits each LSC to send up to 4 adapted swimmers -- 2 can be 12/U and 2 can be 13-18.

He indicated that Pamela Starke-Reed and he can provide guidance in this area. He also indicated that selection criteria might be needed in the event more applications are received than can be placed on the team. Riedlinger was asked to develop proposed criteria. The desirability of having them available early so that potential athletes would know the criteria was raised.

Don also raised as an informational item NCAA rules on compliance. He highlighted some of the following information taken from an earlier message he had sent the PVS Board.

Ethan Bassett indicated interest in following up on an idea he heard at convention - namely have the more senior swimmers in an LSC give to a clinic to age group swimmers. He noted in particular that this need not be national caliber level athletes. In fact it could be very beneficial if less successful athletes who stayed in the sport talked about why they did so and benefits they felt they got by doing so. It was that might reach a completely different group of athletes.

There was a consensus that this is a good idea and ought to be pursued.

Next Meeting Date: The Committee agreed to have the winter meeting on Sunday, January 11 2004 at 10AM at River Falls.

Adjournment: The meeting adjourned at approximately 3:50pm