Approved at WINTER 2001 Competition Committee Meeting
All motions passed by the Competition Committee are recommendations to the PVS Board of Directors.

September 26, 2000 -- 7:00 pm
River Falls Community Center
Potomac Maryland

Note: These minutes are in Agenda order and do not reflect the order discussion actually took place at the meeting.

In Attendance were:

Ward Foley AAC Peter Karl TCSD
Eric Moore AVST George Massey YORK
Rick Curl CUBU Dale Lewis TNT
Manga Dalizu FAST Beth Kremer WARD
Kerstin Severin HACC Victor Abrahamian VSC
Bill West MMSC Coco Buck PVS
Chris Huott MSSC Jim Garner PVS
Dave Tonnesen OCCS Kit Mathews PVS
Todd Benedick RMSC Bob Walker PVS
Mark Eldridge RMSC Greg York PVS
Kent Williams RMSC

Meeting Called to order - at 7:06pm by Competition Chair Jim Garner. CC Chairman - reminded the committee regarding the voting for general votes that there is one vote per club and the Coach representatives each have one vote.

Ward Foley requested the Administrative Office send an email 30 days prior to the meeting to remind coaches that the minutes had been posted subsequent to the previous meeting. This should reduce delays of coaches having the need to read the minutes during the meeting because they failed to review them prior.

Approval of the minutes for Spring & Summer
There was brief discussion regarding some previously tabled motions. The chair indicated those issues would be dealt with later in the meeting. Motion to approve minutes-Passes.

Outstanding Athlete Selection

1999 -2000 Outstanding Athlete Discussion of dates to be included in this voting be only 8/31/99 to 9/1/00 Motion to stay with dates as stated in P&P. Discussion followed. Motion Passes.

Request to bring up at HoD that Summer Olympics should be included for voting purposes in the current voting year and not pushed to next regardless of the actual dates of competition.

The Outstanding Athletes for 2000 as elected by age group are:

Female Athletes Age Group Male Athletes
Morgan Ribar 10 & under Robert Grimmett-Norris
Jennifer Basel 11-12 Ben Miller
Lee Ann Chang 13-14 Ryan Hurley
Sean Murray
Jessica Brosch 15-16 Chris Gibson
Jessica Brosch 17-18 Michael Raab
Molly Freedman Open Tom Dolan

Motion to give 13-14 male award to both athletes - Passes.

Awards Presentation - location. Motion - Outstanding Athlete Awards to be presented at CUBU Invitational. Discussion followed - Concern that 12 & UNDERS were aged up and not at the AG meet. Concern CUBU Invitational is not an association meet and that some teams may not participate in that meet. More discussion followed Motion Passes. DT, WF, VA against.

Review of the 2000 LCM Season

2000 LC Zone Meet Report GY brought up concerns about non Zone coaches on the deck - suggested that penalty be assessed to PVS coaches if they violate the rule that there be a formal sanction - possibly loose their PVS Coaches card, he also expressed concern over the bad reputation PVS received because of non accredited coaches on deck.

DT - 5 coaches for 146 athletes - if there is a problem with an athlete and that athlete's coach is in attendance (although not an official Zone Coach) it is good to have that coach available there to serve the athlete as long as it in not interfering with the meet during warm down and warm ups.

BW as Head coach was reprimanded by Zone Management for allowing "PVS" coaches to use unauthorized warm up lanes etc. Non-credentialed coaches don't attend the meetings and don't know the meet procedures. Concern over getting the coaches interested in participating on the Zone team and not just being there for their athlete only.

Further discussion followed regarding the difference between SCY and LCM Zone teams. There was no resolution at this time but a consensus was reached that we need to provide the best coaching environment for our athletes w/o undue stress to the Zone team Staff. Further communication from Zone management to non-Zone coaches is needed.

Zone Team

Zone Coach Selection - Head and Assistant head coach selection only Assistant Coach Selection Process & Deadline Motion for athlete selection be 9/1/00 through AG Champs 2001 for 12 & under taking the two fastest swimmers, and the 13 & overs would be 9/1/00 through Spring Sectionals - Passes

Discussion regarding the selection deadline for asst coaches - wait until after Zone team is selected. Suggested that the BoD makes a recommendation. GY by the last day of AG champs application for asst coach then caucus of coaches on deck for the 12 & under coaches and then the same process for JR champs. For the SR Coaches. Voting to take place at the meet.

WF issue with 13 & over two trips to Zones don't get to go back. Per P&P 13 over three trips and 15 & OVER 2 trips.

Motion - (ME) That those lines referring to Zone Team limit per swimmer over the age of 13 and 15 be stricken from the P&P. Passes

WF asked that this be approved by the BoD at earliest convenience

Motion: Two AG coaches selected at AG Champ nominations no later than the last event in prelims, voted on at the end of the meet. Motion Passes

Motion: Two SR Zone Coaches be voted on at the end of Sectionals nominations no later than the last event in prelims, voted on at the end of the meet Motion Passes.

Motion: JR Coaches rep runs the elections at AG Champs and SR Coaches Rep runs the elections at Sectionals. Motion passes

Motion - To retain coaches' Zone Coach Applications not voted as Head or Assistant Head coach toward assistant Zone coach positions for either AG or SR assistant coach. Passes

2001 SCY Zone Coach Ballot

Head and Assistant Head Only A vote was first held for the head coach first and after that vote was tallied a vote was held for assistant coach.



Asst. Head

Todd Benedick



Brenden Betts



Christian Doud



Ward Foley



Rob Griffin



Dan Jacobs



Marilyn Mangles



George Massey



Nathan Meadow



Evan Stiles



Bob Walker



Bob Walker was elected as Head Coach and Evan Stiles as Assistant Head Coach

Names shaded not eligible or withdrawn as head coach nominee.

Motion to destroy ballots- passed.

SCY 2000/01

Review of upcoming season RC questioned if there were any teams present that would not be coming in the same numbers to the December CUBU Invitational as past years. Teams present indicated there would be no significant change in their participation.

The use of the "Junior Olympic" meet name was discussed, and if it was the intention of CUBU to use that meet name for their December Invitational. Further discussion followed, and since the JO name is owned by PVS the BoD gets to make that decision. Motion: AG Champs now called PVS JO. Passes unanimously.

LCM 2001 Schedule

The following proposed 2001 Long Course schedule was presented to the Committee:

  • Sa/Su May 26-27 PVS Distance Meet
  • Su June 10 PVS Senior I (2 sites)
  • Su June 17 PVS Age Group I (2 sites)
  • Su July 1 PVS Senior II (2 sites)
  • Su July 8 PVS Age Group II (2 sites)
  • Th-Su July 12-15 PVS Senior Champs
  • Fr-Su July 20-22 PVS Junior Champs
  • Fr-Su July 20-22 PVS Age Group Champs
  • We/Sa August 8-11 Eastern Zone LC Championships (info only)

Motion: SR II move to June 24 and AG II to July 1 - Passes

Motion to table LCM 2001 schedule until winter meeting pending LCM Sectional selection - Passes ME opposed .

Discussion followed regarding LCM Sectionals - the body was informed by the Administrative Office that more than likely those dates and decisions would be settled at the USAS Convention Orlando upcoming in October.

Senior Swimming

Discussion regarding the current state of the SC Sectional meet and current proposed Qualifying Times. Jim Passed out the proposed cuts by Dave Carson and the ones he had proposed. The times were very similar. He then explained his method for reaching those times and informed the committee that those times were only proposed and would have to be approved by the region.

Jim Garner explained he used the PVS, VA and Mid Atlantic searchable databases to create the first pass at the qualifying times. Jim explained he used only those three LSC's because they are the only ones with searchable data bases to use to review the times.

Jim went on to explain he hopes to have this finalized by the end of September - all aspects of the meet are finalized except the QT - faster than PVS SR champs and slower than current JR National times. Concerns were expressed over other LSC's GC and why Dave Carson is not moving faster and the need to expedite these issues and get a MA out to the Region @ LSC's. Relay formula used was to add individual times and add 10% - Motion - Accept the process of determining the QT for Sectional as outlined by Jim Garner.- Passes

ME & JG will review and then go to Dave Carson will recommendation and round up the time to end in .X9.

Motion: by WF to use corresponding LC times for SC Sectionals take QT and use the national time standard and follow the line across. If you are X % off the standard then that corresponding LC standard with the same X% off be used for LC cuts for the SC Sectional. Discussion followed: this meet is not based on national time standards. - Motion withdrawn

Motion: We use the FINA SC to LC and LC to SC conversion for sectionals - Passes

Motion: Once the cuts are approved, that the sectional cuts be the upper cut for JR Champs - SR Champs cuts will not change. Motion Passes Discussion followed.

Moving Jr Champ cut to sectional and adjust the bottom to have the proper size meet. Further lengthy discussion followed.

Kent (RMSC) - proposed JR Champs be cut to sectionals and have 13-14 cut and a open cut. Run in two courses with correct time lines for sessions. Open to any athlete that makes that cut and leave 13-14 cuts alone and return/leave AG Champs as 12 & under same as last year and JR Champs have 13-14 cut and open cut for anyone else.

DT strongly opposes - not adding any advantage to 13-14 we aren't giving them a meet where they are not getting hammered in the finals. He referred back to Mike Pluiskatis' proposal from last May.

KW - AG Champs could still be 2 courses to eliminate long prelims and still give our kids prelims/finals meet format. More discussion followed regarding the impact these changes would have on the meets and the athletes.

Concern over which meets do they (athletes & clubs) go to, this makes three scored meets in three to four weeks, we want to give them lots of quality swimming but not in three weeks give them 14 & Champs (AG Champs) or give them JR Champs not both. Opposing opinion was raised and further discussion followed. WF does not think the athletes will swim too many meets - thinks more chances the better. ME supports that theory if we can offer them more than one meet we should let the club/coach decide how to proceed and not over legislate their meet/swimming choices.

GY stated we have been deciding what we would allow and not allow which is why we schedule the meets the way we do, to protect them, but still give them opportunities - CC sets schedule to provide athletes with 1-2 meets per month - more than that is too much.

Peter Karl - Would like to see the 13-14 at both SR Champ and JR Champ meets, then they can see the other athletes and aspire to be at that level. Putting them back at AG is a concern. Doesn't want to see them "swim down" to the 12 & Unders, concerned if cuts are same for AG & JR you won't have the best swimming with the best because there are two meets to choose from unless the cuts are different.

Kit - if 14 y/o makes open cut they should be allowed to swim at either JR Champs or SR Champs if they have the times. DT - We had great idea in spring to do something for our 13-14 y/o athletes now we are changing it at a late date. Give the 13-14 a place to shine particularly the boys - if we do it at both places, we are sending a mixed signal. It was noted for the record that Dave Tonnesen agreed with Greg York. Dale Lewis (TNT) suggested we have two 13-14 cuts, an AG and JR cut, thus giving different levels of swimmers an opportunity to shine.

Rick Curl also agreed with DT - he has a good point we should leave the plans alone for now and revisit in the spring of 01 and evaluate in the spring the past season and see what worked and didn't and then plan for the next season then and leave it alone for now.

Kent but this is the same thing that has happened with sectionals. Coaches need to make that decision - some 13-14 may taper for SR Champs and not go to AG Champs. Motion - dates stay the same JR Champs now includes 13-14 one cut open to sectionals 12 & under run as last year and the date stay the same. Motion Fails

Motion - JR Champs be 13 & OVER for all events offered at AG Champs and available to all swimmers in events not available at AG Champs providing the athlete makes the QT. Motion Passes. (12 & Unders may now enter JR Champs in 400IM, 1000 and 1650 free and the 200 stroke events if they have the QT)


Set Travel Reimbursement Rates & Requirements ME briefly discussed his previous proposal to discontinue travel funding in PVS. Motion discontinue National travel funding for FY 2002 Discussion followed:

Rick Curl - for clubs that are not state or county funded the families rely on that funding. Could find way to clean up the procedures but it is a big help because some families spend so much.

DT now cut Travel because we no longer have JR Nationals the costs are reduced substantially.

WF - from club that is tax supported his athletes don't receive funding supports ME doesn't think younger athletes should bare the costs of the elite athletes, to "cry poverty by a club that makes large $ is wrong".

GY if we take the travel money away, where are we going to put those dollars. We have cut the highest-level athletes that may be fine but where do the athletes that don't have that funding currently benefit. What will the association do to provide benefits to all athletes?

Mel left out who benefits from eliminating travel as to not cloud the issue with special interest groups. That should be determined later so that would not affect how the voting went.

ME responded to RC's earlier comment about State and County owned clubs receiving taxpayer funding stating RMSC doesn't receive taxpayer funding.

Rick responded with the fact that those clubs operating costs are lower because of no pool rentals Mel voiced his concern over the fact that we have kids going to meets just to get funding and the time spent by volunteers, staff and at BoD meeting because of travel. PVS clubs should be allowed to prioritize how they run their club and manage their budgets.

DT concern over in the past we have passed to the board deep cuts but the BoD doesn't respond as to where that "extra" money went. We should ear mark where the money goes before approving any funding cuts. Don't cut it until we know where it is going.

Manga - qualifying his statement with "not having had to apply for travel reimbursement" agrees with Mel - that it is time consuming - athletes feel it is their right - We/They need to stop asking what will PVS give me.

DT - these athletes and their clubs and coaches bring recognition to this LSC and that is positive for the clubs in the association not just the clubs receiving funding.

Motion to eliminate travel funding in FY 2002 - Passes - RC & DT vote against.

Motion: Reimbursement rates for SR National (Spring 01) remain at $450 & $250 For US Open (Dec 2000). Passes  Note: Reimbursement rate for US Open had been approved by PVS Board in April 2000

Requirements for Phillips Spring 01 Motion Travel requirements be Athletes must swim 9 events of which 6 must be PVS Sponsored meets and the 9 events swum over three meets - Passes

Victor - Swimmer must currently swim both prelims and finals (if qualified) brings up the concerns of slow swimming in finals because they could not scratch since participations in both P & F (if qualified) is required. Motion - Swim in prelims is what is used, as participation finals are not required. Finals would not be considered as a travel event - Passes.

ME reminded the body that this is only a recommendation and will require P&P to be changed; therefore, a BoD vote will be required. Rick concerned that we won't see our elite athletes at the Champ meets. Rick recommends that we have a lesser number of swim events and have elite athletes' support at camps and other PVS sponsored events.

DT commented on how he thinks these athletes could give back to the younger athletes at events other than just swimming at SR Champs.

Age Group Swimming

The following report was submitted by Bob Walker the incoming AG Chairman to the BoD on September 12, 2000.

DT recommended we put distance on Thursday night as timed final (1000 OR 1650) Discussion followed regarding the possible format. Using the former JO (CUBU Invitational) as a model big girls and little boys two courses and then flip for second session

GY how do we handle 10 & UNDERS

Motion - Thursday night distance - 500 12 & under 1650 14 & under - Friendly amendment - leave distance format to Ag Chair Passes

BW - Question to the body - Is 500 and 1000 timed final or bring a heat back at night? Motion - 1000 Timed final with fastest heat at night. Discussion - good to highlight the fast distance swimmers 1 heat 1000 free per sex at night with the balance in the morning DT 1000 or the 1650 agreed Motion Passes

Further discussion regarding the 800 free relay for 13-14 y/o - do we want it as an event in the 14 & under champs Motion - 13-14 800 free relay at the 14 & under champs - passes

Motion - 1 heat of finals for 10 & under. Per gender Discussion Passes

Motion 10 & Unders swim prelims in the morning Discussion Combining the 10 & Unders to the morning session Fails

Motion - 10 & unders in the afternoon session and bring back 1 heat at night for 10 & under finals Passes

GY offered to help with the 13-14 cuts.

Reports from the BoD

GY - Noted that the BoD voted meets such as national meets will not be required to pay a splash fee to the association. He expressed concern over the rising LSC expenses - Meets are supposed to promote the LSC but GY feels that these clubs are the ones benefiting.

DT asked where is the money going from these meets? And asked for clarification regarding what is a club meet and what is a "national" level meet.

JG - explained the meets the BoD was referring to were meets where the association (PVS) did not have direct control over awarding - Zone level and above.

DT suggested the BoD brings the concern of the financial responsibility of these hosts to the Zone.

GY expressed his unhappiness with clubs not contributing to the LSC considering there is other revenue opportunities for income at these meets.

If club is not making money BoD give them a break on splash fees, but if the club is financially successful at these types of meet the LSC should benefit as well.

Motion that if a profit was made at a Zone level or above meet that the club pay a splash fee as currently outlined in P&P. This would include both past (SCY EZ 2000) and future meets. Passes

Old Business


New Business

Request for Meet - MMSC The meet was discussed Motion approval and sanction of this meet with the understanding that a PVS LC meet may be scheduled on that weekend. Passed.

It was noted that the standard sanction request must be submitted to the Administrative office in a timely fashion.

A summation of the written request follows:

The Metro Marlins Swim Club (MMSC) is respectfully requesting the approval of Potomac valley Swimming to sponsor a swim meet (Maryland's Juneteenth Outreach Swim Championships) [on June 16-17, 2001]. This will be an open swim meet. The express purpose of this meet is to recruit and attract minorities and economic disadvantaged youths to competitive swimming. Monies raised from this meet will be used to recruit and provide swim scholarships based on financial needs of disadvantaged swimmers. MMSC in addition will offer a clinic the Friday afternoon prior to the swim meet. As you are aware proper planning and execution is important, so we would appreciate your expedient approval. MMSC will open this meet to clubs from other LSC's outside of the area. We expect 450 swimmers and 2000 entries.

Meeting Adjourned 10:57pm.

Respectfully submitted,
Irene Millman

Potomac Valley Swimming